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We believe food labels can help consumers make better choices—for themselves, for food workers, for animal welfare and for the planet. But with so many labels on food packaging these days, how do we know which labels and claims to trust? Are some labels more important than others?
In this episode of Eat, Drink, Think, we’re talking with Danielle Nierenberg, the president and co-founder of Food Tank, to understand what’s behind various food labels and certifications and to explore how eaters can decide what standards to support with the products they choose to purchase.
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Amy O’Neill Houck: Welcome to Eat, Drink, Think. I’m Amy O’Neill Houck. In this podcast, from Edible Communities, a network of magazines published across the US and Canada, we celebrate all things local and sustainable in the food world.
Today, we’ll be speaking with Danielle Nierenberg. Danielle is the president of Food Tank, which she co-founded with Bernard Pollack in 2013 to build a global community for safe, healthy nourished eaters.
Danielle is the recipient of the 2020 Julia Child Award.
Danielle contributed to the fourth in a series of pieces produced by Edible Communities for publication in Edible Magazines across the US and Canada and at ediblecommunities.com. The piece by Elena Seeley, Content Director for Food Tank, is titled In Labels We Trust: How Food Certification Labels, Seals and Standards Can Help Eaters Make Better Choices.
It’s an explainer and guide, leading us into a fuller understanding of how to read food labels, not just on packages, but on produce, meat and poultry, in order to eat in a way that supports the safety of the growers and producers of our food, our health and safety as eaters and the health of the planet. It’s a lot to take in, and the piece dives right into that bit of overwhelm we feel when digesting all the things we might consider by simply trying to choose a banana, a bar of chocolate or an egg.
Danielle Nierenberg, welcome to Eat, Drink, Think.
Danielle Nierenberg: Oh, I’m so glad to be here. And please call me Dani, Amy. It’s so nice to see you.
AOH: Wonderful, Dani. I’m so glad that you’re here. Anyway for our listeners and readers who might be discovering Food Tank for the first time, via the podcast or Edible Magazines, can you talk a little bit about the organization, its mission and what you’re up to in 2022?
DN: Sure. Absolutely. Food Tank was founded on this very simple mission of really sharing stories of hope and success in food and agriculture systems across the globe, so both domestically and internationally. And really trying to see where bridges are between what’s happening in the global south and the global north and make those connections.
And we do this in a number of ways. One is through a weekly newsletter that reaches hundreds of thousands of people around the world: farmers and chefs and teachers and professors and scientists and researchers and really all of us who eat. We really try to share information in a way that is easy to understand as possible. We’ve also have a really robust social media network. We do our own podcast. We convene events, both virtually and in-person very soon when we go to South by Southwest in Austin, in March.
So we have big plans for a Nourishing America Tour this year to really shine a spot outline on all the good folks who have kept the food system going in the United States during the pandemic, despite so many challenges. And really working with communities, academic communities and community groups to pick themes that really resonate with them, whether it’s around regenerative agriculture, the role of technology in food systems, food justice, and equity. So we’re really excited to begin the tour. And, again, looking forward to South by Southwest, and knocking on wood that we get over this particular variant of COVID and can do these things safely and well and really bring people together again.
AOH: So the tour is that visit to various cities where you’ll be producing food specific events?
DN: Yeah, Food Tank has been doing summits since our inception in 2013, and we really try to have what we call uncomfortable conversations, bringing people together in a way that they normally wouldn’t interact. So having food justice advocates, for example, on the same stage as corporate executives. And really having blunt and open conversations about where the food system needs to go, what needs to change, how it can change, what kinds of investments are needed.
So the Nourishing America Tour, your listeners can find out more about it on foodtank.com. We’ll be visiting many cities starting in Austin and then going to Santa Barbara, but all over the country and any hitting places, especially in the Midwest, that don’t get as much attention, I think… I’m originally from the Midwest, that they need. There’s so much good food system work going on in places that are often overlooked or considered flyover zones.
AOH: Great. Well, that sounds really exciting. I’m very much looking forward to getting back to meeting with people and convening in person and just there’s the synergy and a sort of serendipity that happens that is a little bit different from when we get together online.
DN: Absolutely. I had the chance to go to COP26, and I was in Barcelona for the Milan Urban Food Policy Pact late last year. And just being in person again, being around people who were really passionate about these issues, is such an exciting thing. And, especially, I was inspired by how young people are really leading these issues at these big events, these big global events. Where when I was their age, I never thought I would be in the room. And these young folks are taking it on like they belong there, and they do belong there. And it’s so exciting to see that.
AOH: I agree, and I find it really inspiring. I have a 21-year-old who’s an environmental activist, and I think at some point, that age group, they worry that because they’re so active that we’ll maybe want to step back. But I think, on the contrary, I just find it really inspiring. It makes me want to do more.
DN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
AOH: So in the opening of In Labels We Trust, the article quotes Brian Ronholm of Consumer Reports, and he says, “Unfortunately, the burden is always on the consumer in terms of evaluating the veracity of the label.” And that made me stop and think because I was like, “Why is it up to the consumer to judge whether labeling is accurate or truthful? What about laws that govern what producers can and cannot claim?” Did you want to comment on that?
DN: Yeah. I mean, I think there’s so much onus placed on consumers, and despite laws and regulations, there’s so many labels and certification standards out there that you do have to really be this conscious consumer and find ways to learn about what the labels actually mean. And that’s why we were so excited to write this piece for Edible and with Edible, because we just wanted to demystify some of this and make it easier.
So the short version of the article that will appear in print, I think you could carry it around with you if you needed to, right? And take it to the grocery store or have it on your phone. And it could be a really helpful way to guide you through the buying process. There’s so much information out there. And what we try to do is talk to experts who are really clear about identifying things that are important to consumers.
And sometimes you sort of have to pick and choose, right? What’s important to you? Is it animal welfare? Is it food justice and justice for farm workers? And really concentrate on that because not one label’s going to fit everything that you might be concerned about.
AOH: It’s true, and just sitting with this idea of the onus being on the consumer for a minute. The essay appears at a time when it seems like the media zeitgeist is all about truth, right? As information consumers and food consumers are kind of constantly asked to think critically and judge what we can and should not believe and eat.
DN: Right.
AOH: And since I’m a news, in fact, and food nerd, and I still find it strains my brain a little bit and makes me tired.
DN: Me too.
AOH: Yeah. So I’m kind of wondering, how do we reframe food buying to make it feel fun, maybe, or make it feel like it’s actually feeding us, nourishing us in ways beyond nutrition and nourishing those from whom we buy? As opposed to a chore where we’re in danger of making the wrong choice.
DN: I think we’re at such a different point in what we can call this movement, because I think so much was unveiled during the last 22 months or wherever we are in the pandemic at this point. And I think consumers are thinking very differently than they did in 2019. So in one respect, maybe one of the few ways that there are silver linings to the pandemic is consumers now understand, I think, in a way that they didn’t before.
It’s not just the grocery store workers. It’s not just the processing plant workers. It’s the truck drivers. It’s everyone along the food chain. And so I think people have a different consciousness around food and where they… The personal has also become sort of global. So people are obviously more concerned about their health than ever before, partly because of the pandemic. But they also understand that so many people are affected by the food system in a way that I don’t think they did before.
So that kind of reframing can give consumers, eaters, power to make different decisions that they know will have impacts. If you don’t care about animal welfare, you probably do care about people. And so there are ways to make changes in the food system that go beyond just what consumers have been used to for the last several decades.
AOH: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. I mean, I think always when these questions come up about privilege and who has the privilege to make these kind of choices, these conscious choices and who is in an area where the choices for food are limited. And I always feel like, how can we empower those with restricted means to feel ownership and to feel that they have some food sovereignty, that they have some choices?
DN: Absolutely.
AOH: And I guess it’s kind of perhaps something that it’s a rising tide effect, one would hope, but I feel like we also need to take conscious action in both directions.
DN: Oh, in a million different directions. Right? I mean, to make food accessible and affordable and healthy. Everyone deserves the right to sustainable food that is produced in a manner that is good for people and the planet. And right now that’s not happening.
And so I think you’re absolutely right on about this power aspect and where we are right now.
And one of the things that we found out when we were writing the article is about this Food Justice Certified label that I’m so excited about, because it does protect farmers and farm workers in a different way than any other label. But the fact of the matter is that it’s not widespread and it needs to be. And we interviewed Leah Penniman from Soul Fire Farm, who’s one of the many food heroines in this space, who’s just so dynamic. And she’s really great at pinpointing, these are difficult discussions to have in a country that is built on inherent racism, especially in our food and agriculture systems. But we need to have these discussions and we need to think about the origin of our food systems and change it. And this Food Justice Certified label is part of that change that we need to see happen.
AOH: How else can we protect food workers and producers beyond this hopefully growing label?
DN: I mean, there are a number of different ways.
I think as someone who’s always been concerned about where food comes from, I think the Regenerative Organic Certified label that is getting more popular is one way to do that because it looks beyond just the organic standards that were developed in the 1990s, and really looks at our food system more holistically, that it’s not just about how food was grown, but how it affects the overall environment around it, including workers and farmers and others. So I think there’s a lot of ability for that to take on more popularity, especially with some of the brands that are behind it, including Dr. Bronner’s and Patagonia, and then of course the wonderful Rodale Institute who have been pioneers in making sure that our food systems are, again this word, unveiled. It always pops into my head, unveiling what is behind how our food has grown and the impacts it can have on the environment and our human health.
AOH: So lot of our readers probably have read a bit about Regenerative Organic, but for those who don’t, do you mind giving a little elevator pitch as to exactly what it is?
DN: So the Regenerative Organic label works to improve soil health, animal welfare, and this idea of fairness, which I think gets to a lot of what we’ve been talking about with equity and affordability and the social justice concerns that many people have around how our food is grown. So there’s a real incentive for improvement because there’s a three tiered certification plan or certification process in the Regenerative Organic label. So producers can earn a bronze, silver, or gold label, and so there’s incentives to keep improving. And I really like that because I think it’s not just enough to get your stamp. You need to keep improving and have that ability to show that your consumers and your constituency and other companies and other producers that there are ways to do this even better than before.
AOH: Are there big barriers to entry to Regenerative Organic? I know that even USDA organic or other organic certifications can be challenging for small farmers.
DN: I mean, I think all of these certification standards have real barriers to entry for farmers, because there’s a lot of paperwork, there’s a lot of getting folks to come and visit your farm or visit your facility and those kinds of things. I think that it’s kind of a conundrum because farmers want to do their job and they want to do it to the best of their ability. And from my perspective, from visiting farmers all over the world, they’re the smartest people I know, but they just want to do their jobs. Not all of them are great at the business side. Not all of them are great at the communication side. And so what I think they need is help.
And there are, I know, consulting firms and organizations out there that are working to help farmers get through these process of different kinds of labeling and help them to do it better, but that requires money.
So I think, eventually there needs to be some sort of incentive program from the federal government and to help farmers get through the entire process, because it is cumbersome when you’re just trying to grow food and feed your family and feed others really well. And so I think we have a long way to go in making this equitable for producers as well, especially the small producers.
AOH: Do any of the labels themselves, like the Regenerative Organic label, do they have a mission of equity or access that includes reaching out to save Black farmers to try and increase that population?
DN: It’s a good question, and one we try to dive into a little bit in the piece with the Food Justice Certified label. But I don’t know if Regenerative Agriculture label is working on that. I hope they are. I have a feeling that they are, but I don’t know.
AOH: Sometimes, to me, the labels themselves kind of feel a little bit like nesting dolls, kind of the way that Regenerative Organic is already organic and maybe Fair Trade is organic, and maybe some organic is Fair Trade, but not necessarily.
DN: Right.
AOH: So I wondered if you could speak a little bit to the hierarchy of labeling, and if you were picking one label to focus on what might that be?
DN: Such a good question, and such a hard one to answer, because I think it’s different for different products. Right? So I’m more of the mind, I think it depends.
One of the people we interview in the piece talks about, figure out what you’re passionate about, and then find the label that speaks to you. And I think that’s the best advice. Right? That if you’re interested in climate, look for the climate certifications. If you’re interested in making sure that farmers in the global south are protected, look for those Fair Trade labels that really do that. If you’re interested in women farmers look for those labels that are working to improve farming conditions and gender equity. If you’re interested in animal welfare, look for the animal welfare certified labels and others that are doing that. But it really has to come from the consumer themselves, because again, not all labels are created equal, and not all labels are going to cover everything at this point. Until we have a truly regenerative equitable food system, not every label will be able to cover what we want it to.
AOH: The article also mentions the idea of labels that can be ignored, which I thought was kind of good news. The piece mentions all natural as one that we can overlook. And when it comes to eggs, for instance, hormone free. Can you talk a little bit about meaningless labeling and how we can tune out some noise?
DN: I think the all natural label, because it means nothing. I think we have a level of consumer engagement now where consumers understand that, so I think the food marketers and big food will eventually stop using it because again, it means nothing. But it is interesting how that label has evolved, because I think if someone saw that label in the 1970s, they would think, “Oh gosh, this is really good for me.” And now I think we have a more engaged consumer, especially in the United States, that’s not falling for that anymore.
AOH: Yeah. I mean, a lot of the products that we are talking about today are maybe single ingredient things. They are a piece of meat or an egg or a piece of fruit. But when we’re talking about packaged foods, I guess I might even suggest reading beyond the certification labels and actually reading the ingredient list to see if that aligns.
DN: Absolutely. And it goes back to do you actually want to eat something no matter if it’s organic or not, that has 52 ingredients that are really hard to pronounce? Or do you want to eat something more simple that is an actual whole food? It’s going back to what Michael Pollan and Marion Nestle, and so many other people have suggested over the years, to sort of eat slimfully and eat well by looking at non-processed foods.
AOH: Mm-hmm (affirmative) So one of the things I got excited about in this article is in the portion about fish and seafood, there’s a company mentioned called Envisible, and they’re using Blockchain, which we know as being connected to cryptocurrency, but it’s really just a way of certifying or tracking things, right. It’s using Blockchain to track the seafood supply chain, all the way from the fishing grounds to our plates. So can you comment on that and other ways in which technology, maybe in the future, could ease this burden on the consumer?
DN: Absolutely. And Envisible is one of those companies that I’m really excited about. It’s founded by Mark Kaplan, who has worked at really big food companies like Unilever, but is very interested in this idea of not just traceability, tracing where foods come from, but transparency for consumers and for fishers themselves in the case of the seafood industry.
They hope to use this technology for other foods as well, including beef, but it can really help eliminate some of the fraud that has been happening, especially in seafood, the slavery conditions that are happening in the seafood industry, because you know exactly where that fish is coming from. The way blockchain works is that, you can’t change any of the… Once it’s in there, it’s in there. You can’t change any of the information. There’s no ability to have that fraud.
So I think it’s such an exciting time to look at how combining traditional, especially traditional fishing practices or traditional ways of producing food with these kinds of high tech solutions that can really not only help consumers know where their food comes from and who produced it and how they were treated and how livestock or fish were treated, et cetera, but really enables companies to be held accountable in a way that they haven’t been in the past.
I think that’s really exciting to me. You can’t get away. I mean, we’re at a point in time where you can’t get away with this anymore. I’m really excited about that. I know there’s so many criticisms around food technology right now, but this is really an area where I see so much advancement. It’s really ripe for improvement and more and more innovation. Again, it’s going to help consumers and producers alike.
AOH: Right. I think it’s exciting that the people in the blockchain sphere, they use the word trustless, which doesn’t mean you can’t trust it. It means you actually don’t have to have trust because the code protects everything. There’s no judging. Do I like this person? Or do I like this entity or institution, which is pretty amazing.
DN: Yeah, that’s great.
AOH: So meat and poultry and dairy products are still permitted to be certified USDA Organic, even if the animals are raised in CAFOs. So confined animal feeding operations which are essentially factories. I was wondering if you could comment on this dilution of the organic standard.
DN: I think what’s important for consumers to take away from this sort of complexity of how meat is labeled in this country is that, the best thing to do is really to understand where your meat comes from if you’re able to. Again, this is a circumstance where privileged consumers have a lot more opportunity to do this.
But going to your farmers market, getting to know the people who raise your meat is one way to do that, asking questions at the grocery store or co-op where you go to shop is another way. Just really understanding if the meat was processed locally, how far away it came from. These are all ways that consumers can get to know a little bit more about the meat system.
I think we’re at a point in time where we’re understanding that not all meat is created equal and that there are producers out there who are trying to produce meat in a way that is sustainable for people and the environment. Niman Ranch is such a good example of this. Pigs are raised outdoors. They’re following strict standards around animal welfare, patagonia Meat, sorry, Panorama meats and others.
So I think there’s a lot of opportunity for consumers to understand from the producers themselves. Again, technology can be part of this with QR codes and others that really give you the whole story and whole picture of where your meat comes from.
AOH: Yeah. I think what’s really going to consumers is just that the fact that something is stamped in really huge print, USDA Organic. So it’s given this appearance of organic when the lobby has made these standards, weaken these standards to allow for factory farming.
DN: Absolutely.
AOH: …and that weakens the trust in the entire name of organic really once you start to think about it and that’s really disappointing.
DN: Absolutely.
AOH: So, the article talks about animal welfare certified. I think another thing that the article mentions is grass fed, grass finished when you know that something is not in a confined situation if it’s certified grass fed, right. So that’s another label that they could look to beyond organic. Of course, the communities we’re all about eating local. So I think that looking to connecting one on one when you have that opportunity with producers is always the hope and a way that you can know how what you’re eating was produced.
DN: Absolutely. All good points.
AOH: Well, beyond voting with their forks, which is what we like to say a lot for consumers who have the ways to do that, the means to do that, what else can we do to advocate to make these certifications more meaningful and stronger?
DN: I mean, I think, the vote with your fork thing has always bothered me a little because you can’t just do… It’s not just about your buying power, right? It’s about your power as a citizen. My friend Bob Martin at the Center for a Livable Future at Johns Hopkins university has this… talks a lot about this idea of a “citizen eater”. So how can you use your role as an eater because we all eat, to make the changes that we want to see.
Again, I think this is where we look at policies. So you have to vote with your vote for the kind of legislators and governments that you want to see, whether it’s at the national level or at your local level. I mean, there’s so much ability for local communities, for local school boards to change how they procure food and you can be part of that by just being more involved. So procuring organic food, procuring animal welfare certified food, doing all of these things to really make local food systems better, because I think that’s where we can make the most impact right now.
Because, who knows where our government will be in three and a half years. I think it’s those city changes, those local changes, those village changes that are really going to keep local and regional food systems resilient and keep consumers more informed, whatever regulations around labeling there may be.
AOH: So is local a way to circumvent having to think too much about labeling? I mean, if you’re talking to the person who’s buying your produce, if you’re at a farmers market, if you’ve signed up for a meat CSA or a fish CSA, do you feel like that’s one way that we can filter out what is this certified and that kind of thing?
DN: Yeah. I think eating locally and regionally is one way to do that. Another way is seasonally. I think we’ve ignored seasonal eating for a long time and not understood the benefits of it. By eating seasonally, you’re going to be buying from local producers and people who raise livestock. I think that’s one way to get around these labels as you mentioned.
It goes back to how we started this piece though. We have to flip how… This is… We couldn’t… We should not look at our food choices as a burden. We should look at them as an opportunity, right? Even for consumers who don’t have a lot of time to spend at the grocery store or thinking about these things, there’s real opportunity for change.
I think, if we look at food as a solution to so many of our pressing environmental and social problems, then it doesn’t become a burden to make different kinds of choices and to look into your food system a little bit more, whether it’s finding out what those labels mean or buying locally and regionally.
AOH: Can you talk a little more about the environmental power that we as consumers have? I know climate change’s on everybody’s mind. What kinds of food choices are encouraging and supporting of that?
DN: I think when we’re talking about the climate crisis, there’s so many opportunities for consumers and eaters to make changes that they didn’t know about. The climate crisis is so overwhelming to so many folks. But if they know that they can… What they’re doing probably at least three times a day can make a difference, then they can make those changes.
One of the things that I’ve encountered over the last few years is this idea of the double pyramid. So it’s a food pyramid that shows, it’s your standard food pyramid, where the foods that you should eat least are at the top and grains and vegetables are at the bottom. If you… The other side of the pyramid is the environmental impacts of those foods. So the foods that you should eat the least often have the most environmental impact, whether it’s red meat or high fat or ultra processed foods.
So just thinking about what’s going to make you healthy, is probably going to help make the planet more healthy and help be a… A step towards solving the climate crisis.
AOH: We’ve been hearing a lot about soil health lately and how that is really connected to carbon and global temperature rise. Are there particular foods that we should be looking for that support soil health?
DN: I mean, I’m so excited that people are interested in foods like millets and sorghums and fonio, which is because… I think just… I read a headline today when I was in the car that talked about how the U.S is going to invest in fonio production. I think there’s a lot of exciting ways that perennials and what the Land Institute has done over the last 50 years to encourage the growth of perennials that companies are investing and helping farmers grow cover crops. The thing can be used in breads and other products.
There’s a lot of exciting stuff happening out there, where things that we wouldn’t have thought could get investment a few years ago are now these incredible solutions. I think it’s really exciting that we’re investing more in these foods that have been forgotten, but that indigenous communities, especially in the United States, have invested a lot in and preserving. And they know those are the foods that are not only the foods of the past, but really the foods of the future as well.
AOH: I know Food Tank has been involved in food sovereignty issues and connecting with indigenous communities around food. Do you want to speak to that a little bit?
DN: We’ve just had an incredible opportunity to talk to so many indigenous leaders, including those at the First Nations Development Institute. A-dae Romero-Briones has really been a really great guide in connecting us with so many indigenous leaders over the years.
And you have films like Gather that have shown the importance of the rich cultural traditions around indigenous food systems and how we have so much to learn from them, and not just around how the food is grown, but how it’s preserved and how it’s honored. I think we have a lot of ability to learn from those practices and also honor them. Those practices really need to be honored, and those traditions that have often been looked down upon and the US government was trying to, I think, for so long to erase those indigenous traditions. Now we have to bring the idea that these are the things that should be valued and honored back, so that we can all learn from them.
AOH: And possibly another opportunity to look locally and connect with the communities in your area, because likely, the land that you’re on might have a first peoples there.
DN: More than likely, right? So, yeah.
AOH: And what about food waste? The article touches on that as well and the carbon neutral certification. I know a lot of the talk around food waste in the environment is, again, around what consumers are doing, when really, corporations are the biggest generators of food waste. How do we make choices in our buying that’s going to support that?
DN: Yeah. I mean, that’s, again, a really complicated issue, but I think, again, consumers have been blamed for something that they don’t have a lot of control over.
One of the things that I’m excited about is upcycled foods, foods that are made from the parts of plants or even animals that otherwise would’ve been wasted, but have a lot of nutritional value that don’t need to end up in landfills, that can be made into lots of different things, including animal feed. Do Good Foods recently has launched their chicken feed that they’re making out of retail food waste, and I think that’s really exciting. And so there’s lots of opportunities there.
I think we’re in a space right now where mission-driven companies, companies that are newer or trying to change their practices are really going to be leading a lot of this change on food loss and food waste, and making it profitable, but also making it something that people can feel good about buying, that they can feel really like they’re part of the solution.
It’s not greenwashing, and I think that’s something that as consumers, we’re always scared that we’re being misled by something. But these mission driven companies, they’re using blockchain. They’re making sure that everything is super transparent and things that can be traced. So it’s a whole new world that I think we’ll see over the next few years, because of what these mission-driven companies are doing around food loss and food waste and so many other issues.
AOH: Do you think there’s upward pressure towards larger corporations, where we have seen a lot of greenwashing, to get better by what the small companies doing?
DN: I think there’s no doubt that big food is a little nervous right now around all of the innovations that are happening from small and medium-size business, and they have a lot to learn. I think one of the ways that they’ve done this in the past is by acquiring companies. That doesn’t always have to be a bad thing, though, if you can involve the mission that started those companies in the first place into your larger mission as a big food company. But I think what I always fear is that when big companies take these things on, they dilute the integrity of it, and that’s what we have to watch out for here.
But I’m optimistic. I think things are changing in food business, and I think if a company that is very large doesn’t start making these changes and start making them quickly, especially because of the climate crisis, they will be driven out of business. Consumers will no longer want to be spending their dollars there, and it’ll be the small and medium-size businesses that really take the lead.
AOH: It’s probably worth a quick Google when you’re looking at a new company that sounds cool, right? You could pretty much see whether they’re owned by Unilever or-
DN: Right.
AOH: And see if that mission is truly a mission or just a statement.
DN: Absolutely.
AOH: So are there any standards or goals or issues that you feel like we haven’t really given enough time to today?
DN: I want to go back to Fairtrade, because it’s one of the oldest kind of labels. It’s really important for consumers to understand, if they’re buying products from other countries, that these standards are in place.
Whether it’s Rainforest Alliance Certified or others, there’s really, if you look for that frog, you can be really confident that your food was produced in a way that aligns with things like gender equity and protection of farm workers and reducing pesticide use and reducing the incidence of deforestation. So I think those, as all of these new labels evolve, we want to remind ourselves of these others that were really at the forefront of making sure that labeling had integrity.
AOH: Fairtrade and Rainforest Alliance Certified are separate but connected?
DN: Absolutely. But the Fairtrade standards in general, this idea of fair trade and making sure that farmers are paid what they deserve and that they’re not being taken advantage of, the idea of being able to know where your food comes from and know that the people who grew it are not being bamboozled, that they’re not being stolen from, I think that’s really important for a lot of people.
AOH: And I think we may be feeling like we’re really local. We go to the farmers market, and yet some of our very favorite everyday, must-have foods-
DN: Coffee.
AOH: Hello!
DN: Chocolate.
AOH: Chocolate for me.
DN: Absolutely, absolutely.
AOH: Cooking oils, avocados, things we really, really depend on as consumers.
DN: Bananas.
AOH: Bananas.
DN: Absolutely.
AOH: Yeah. It’s reassuring to know that you feel like that Fairtrade label is one that we can depend on and keep looking for.
DN: Absolutely.
AOH: Well, thank you so much, Dani, for speaking with us. It’s great to have you here on Eat, Drink, Think.
DN: Thank you.
AOH: All right.
DN: I’m so happy to be here, so happy to always be working with Edible. I’ve been a huge admirer and a huge reader, and it’s always been nice to be involved with Edible Community, so thank you so much.
AOH: Thank you, and I can imagine we’ll have future collaborations.
DN: Awesome. Thank you, Amy.
AOH: Bye, Dani. We’ve been listening to Danielle Nierenberg, founder of Food Tank. Thank you for joining us today at Eat, Drink, Think. If you like this episode, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, and don’t forget to pick up your local Edible Magazine. You can find show notes for today’s episode at ediblecommunities.com.
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